In this episode of Redefining HR, I speak with Melissa Daimler, chief learning officer at Udemy and author of the new book “ReCulturing: Design Your Company Culture to Connect with Strategy and Purpose for Lasting Success.” Melissa and I talk about her book, her career path and how learning and organizational development have evolved. We also discuss how to intentionally apply system thinking to design so you can reculture the workplace.

Melissa has been in HR for over 20 years through a variety of roles ⁠— working at big companies like Adobe and Twitter and also owning her own consulting firm. All the while, Melissa has explored how to create successful cultures and learning programs. 

She fell in love with the concept of learning and organizational development at the beginning of her career. “Not just working with individuals, but working with teams and making sure, as an organization, we were making an impact,” Melissa says.

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Rethinking Culture Without Dismissing It

For years, Melissa had been considering writing a book on workplace culture, and her stint at WeWork as senior vice president of talent solidified her intent.

“I don't know if I can go as far as ’I'm glad I went through it,’ but I was glad to see the contrast of what a company looks like when it doesn't value culture,” Melissa says.

After processing her experience there, she wrote an article for Harvard Business Review about culture. She wondered, “Why are we still challenged by some of these basic issues? And how do we make sure that employees and people don’t ever have to live and experience that kind of environment again?”

Melissa had experienced great cultures at Adobe and Twitter. Yet most of what she read about workplace culture didn’t reflect that, instead saying culture “was nebulous, it was relegated to HR, it wasn't really a lever. You know, you can't really leverage it for building your business.”

She also got inspired by the idea of unschooling and wondered how that could be converted to workplace culture. While she didn’t want to dismiss the good things about culture, she wanted to improve it.

So rather than naming her book “Unculturing” or something similar, she turned to “ReCulturing” as a better representation of the framework Melissa wanted to provide. Reculturing also suggests movement and development. Many companies want to preserve their culture through growth periods, but culture is not a static concept. It’s dynamic, and it needs to be recultured to evolve alongside the company.

“If I could help write a playbook and define culture in a succinct way that people could relate to and use themselves ⁠— that was what motivated me to finally write it,” she says.

Thinking Deeper About Culture

Many HR leaders have realized that snacks and perks aren’t signs of culture, much less a healthy and growth-oriented culture. The next level up, Melissa says, is to talk about values, which is a start but insufficient.

“I think the idea of codifying culture into more behaviors is really important,” she says. “I define culture as behaviors and then embedding those behaviors into all the processes that we're familiar with. So hiring, onboarding, developing, recognizing, feedback, promotion, all of those pieces.”

This approach builds culture into informal and everyday practices, so people start behaving in the ways your organization is aiming for. This also creates a self-reinforcing mechanism.

Using Systems Thinking to Improve Culture

In her book, Melissa leans on the idea of systems thinking as a way to approach reculturing. The starting point is understanding that HR, learning and culture aren’t separate functions. Instead, businesses should think about the organizational system (the purpose) and the cultural system.

“We’ve talked a lot about, especially the last few years, the importance of understanding why we exist and how we, as individuals and leaders in the organization, help with that purpose. And then there’s the strategy, the ‘what,’ and then the culture is the ‘how,’” she says.

Understanding those systems allows leaders to dive deeper into the complex workings of culture and move past what she calls “the presenting issues.”

“I just think work is complex. We're human beings,” she says. “There's a lot going on there. So asking really good questions and not just assuming it's a training issue or a communication issue is some of the advice I’ve given.”

People in This Episode

• Melissa Daimler: LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Melissa’s website